21: Breakthrough in Discipleship

[00:00] Stephanie: Season 3, episode 21 Today we are wrapping up our Breakthrough series. Hello, Father.

[00:08] Marcus: Hello, Daughter.

[00:10] Stephanie: Woo! What a journey we’ve been on!

[00:12] Marcus: Yeah, we’ve been talking about this for a while.

[00:14] Stephanie: We have.

[00:14] Marcus: It is a big topic.

[00:15] Stephanie: It is. And honestly we could have talked more. But you know what, go read the book and it’ll be great.

I’ve enjoyed unpacking all of this with you. We’ve been working at taking each part of the BUILD acrostic of the BUILD model, the five engines. We’ve been intentional about contextualizing that within the holistic model of Breakthrough itself. But today I want us to contextualize it even a little bit more.

As a ministry, our core discipleship model we remember with the acrostic FISH, which actually viewers can see behind you. Fish on the wall is subliminal. FISH is for Freedom, and Identity, Spirit and Scripture, and Heart-focused community.

That all leads to mission, or you can do mission in all the things. So as somebody once very nicely said, it’s “Fish, and go Fish”.

We’re talking about FISH today, but we’re also talking about the BUILD model and how they’re related to looking at a holistic, “I am living out my deeper walk with God.”

[01:35] Marcus: There are actually a lot of ways to look at this. I often tell people that our ministry has some clear roots to it and that is, my father worked at Freedom in Christ Ministries for years and they’re all about freedom.

They’re all about identity in Christ, and they talk a lot about walking in spirit and having conversations, walking with God. Then we became partners with Life Model, which is all about attachment and also about Immanuel prayer and connecting with God in a relational way.

Deeper Walk just kind of brought all of those themes together, but one of the reasons that those themes are so important is that they’re gospel-based themes. They weren’t invented by these other ministries. They’re gospel-based.

The gospel says I die with Christ. And I die with Christ because I am enslaved to something that is keeping me in prison. A big part of the atonement work that Jesus did on the cross was to deal with my slavery issue.

“I don’t want you to be slaves to the law anymore. Don’t want you to be slaves to the world, not be slaves to the devil, not be slaves to sin.” And so the idea is, that’s all about freedom. And the Bible says the gospel was given to us so that we could live in freedom.

And that Jesus came for this purpose: to destroy all the works of the evil one. Why? Because he’s keeping me enslaved and away from the life that God intended for me. And so discipleship rightfully starts with this idea of how do I live a crucified life? How do I live in freedom from these things that hold me in bondage?

And then we are raised to a new identity. And that’s the gospel message that has said you can know where you stand with God. You can know that you are his child and that you have eternal life and that you have been raised with Jesus to a new identity. All of that is based in the gospel and so we build off of that.

Then you begin intersecting brain science stuff into this and you realize the brain has a lot to do with how I experience my identity. Maybe it would be helpful to understand how these intersect.

So we have the gospel foundation, and we have the biblical message, but we also add to that the nuances that come from understanding the way my brain actually experiences identity.

And then you go into walking in the Spirit and you realize the Holy Spirit is both the one who lives within me, the God who lives within me, and the author of Scripture.

One of the things that sets Christianity apart is that we, in Christ, have become sacred space in which God actually dwells. That’s a phenomenal thing. We have the Holy Spirit within us, and then we have the Scripture.

So those two things form this one/two element that are both incredibly important in walking in the Spirit. And then we get to H, which is, God didn’t just save me, he saved you too. So why did he save you?

He saved all of us because we all matter to God. He wanted to start a family. His whole thing wasn’t just to save an individual here, an individual there. He’s forming a family. He wants us living in a heart-focused family.

So that’s where we get the FISH from. Freedom, Identity, Spirit, Heart-focused community. And then the idea is, that is both our mission to lead people through all of this, and it is part of what prepares us for mission.

Our mission is inviting people to experience that freedom to find this new identity that is anchored in eternal life, to learn how to walk in the Spirit. So all of this just keeps repeating, repeating.

It is twofold. One is that the goal of the FISH model is to lead to maturity, and the BUILD process unpacks exactly what the steps are and what the processes are that are strategies that lead to growth and maturity that lead to life change and transformation.

And so you can kind of see the BUILD model all through the FISH model, it’s just that they have different starting points. The FISH model is based on the gospel and starts from there.

The BUILD model starts with, what is the problem that you are looking for help for? And starting with your problem, then this is where we go. If we’re starting from the gospel in the Bible, then the FISH is where we start. That’s a long answer.

[06:14] Stephanie: No, that was really helpful and really good. And I know when we were talking, you were also looking at how FISH is heavily discipleship and BUILD is heavily care. There are obviously crossovers.

[06:30] Marcus: Yes, if you have a church with a care ministry and a discipleship ministry, Breakthrough! is probably the book for care ministry, and A Deeper Walk is the book for the discipleship ministry.

But they both affect both things, as you pointed out to me, because I tended to just think of Breakthrough! as an explanation of freedom from the FISH model. Well, there’s also identity involved here because it’s your beliefs and understanding your beliefs.

Scripture factors into my beliefs. Walking in the Spirit is about listening, and that’s part of the BUILD model. So there’s actually a lot of overlap here on every point. And I thought it was funny that you were the one who had to point that out to me.

[07:14] Stephanie: Literally, you can take, FISH:

Freedom – Defeat demons

Identity – Unleash your beliefs

Spirit – Listen to the Spirit.

(I’m crossing which one I’m doing first.)

Spirit in scripture –  Listen to the Spirit

Heart-focused community – Increase your joy bonds.

And then body and mission and stuff, all of them cross over. It’s not like there’s just one if you’re working on this one, you’re just working on this one. No, they all cross over. You’re prioritizing how you’re thinking about one at a time.

They’re very harmonious models. Depending on If you’re needing to start from a growth and discipleship point of view, you might be starting more with FISH. And if you’re starting more from problem solving or…

Marcus: I’m stuck, I need to get a breakthrough…

Stephanie: Then you might start more from BUILD, but they work together. Yes. And some of that, or a lot of that is because they’re growing out of the same worldview: We are holistic human beings. We are people with body, mind, and soul, who are living with other people.

And so how do we do that as people of Jesus Christ? Last time we talked a lot about individuals, and I was curious if you could cast a vision for us for maybe a way or two of how this might look in an organization or a group or a church.

What does it look like to walk out the FISH and BUILD models, specifically the BUILD, in a group?

[08:52] Marcus: So the BUILD model was originally created for organizations that focus on helping people experience transformation or life change, which is specifically organizations that are focusing on some kind of addiction.

And so talking to one group that specialized in, particularly men and women with sex addictions, or they’re talking to people who had narcotic addictions, or alcohol addictions or something like that. There are a lot of ministries that are focused on that.

The BUILD model, found in Breakthrough!, was originally for organizations like this to give them a checklist to look and say what are we providing for our people? Are there holes in what we are providing for our people? And if there are, that might be okay.

But it may also be a sign that I need to now partner with an organization that does deal with that. And so maybe I’m not going to become an expert in spiritual warfare in my organization, but maybe I should partner with a ministry that can handle that part of it.

Or maybe I need to send some people to get training in that part of it so that we have people in our ministry who can deal with those things. Or maybe we don’t have an inner healing component of this because we don’t have people who know how to walk folks through those kinds of processes.

Or maybe it’s attachment. We don’t really understand attachment theory. Where are the holes is the question. And so for organizations, the idea is not only here’s your checklist, but also here’s how you get started.

Here are the basic skills that you need to understand to get started in those areas, to help your people get started in those areas. So not only addiction recovery ministries, but also any care ministry in a church, this same idea.

[10:35] Stephanie: To me, that’s like if phase one is going through your checklist, phase zero is awareness that the checklist even exists, and being like I’m bought in now, but do I need to get anybody else bought into this?

So that’s good. Well, it’s been a long series. Is there anything that, as you reflect over the series, you just would really like to make sure people come away with? Don’t synthesize the series. Like, was there something?

[11:13] Marcus: Yes it’s a very simple series. So the idea here, again, I would come back to that there are two components to breakthrough. One is the things that you’re getting rid of and one is the things you’re building in.

So if you go all the way back to the beginning when we talked, that there are three levels of breakthrough, and that is pain relief. And then there are root issues that I need to deal with. Those both have to do with, what do I need to get out of my life?

Usually the lies I gotta get out, the bad habits I gotta get out. But then there is the part of, what are the new skills and habits I need to bring in? And I find that I need both parts of this and that the ultimate breakthrough that I’m looking for is not just a breakthrough of, I don’t have that bad habit anymore, but it is the breakthrough of, I am actually living at a higher level of maturity than I used to live.

Because again, if people don’t level up in maturity, then what happens is they tend to just rotate addictions. And so someone who’s trying to get rid of pornography may just start smoking more, or somebody trying to stop smoking may just start drinking more. So I’m going to try to stop doing that.

They rotate just which addiction is controlling them the most at that moment. So they can get freedom from the one thing, but they’re not really getting the full level of freedom they’re looking for because that only comes with maturing.

And so understanding how maturity works and understanding that I need to grow some attachment skills, for example, is something that isn’t on everybody’s list. And so you’re looking at, well, what does that look like to grow these attachments?

Or maybe I realize that, you know what, I fall into my addiction when I get triggered with shame, or I go into my addiction when I get triggered with anger, so maybe I need a game plan for how to deal with that emotion. And that’s where the T bar charts come in, and turning my brain into an anteater comes in, and dealing with beliefs.

The idea here is to understand that the ultimate goal isn’t just relief from pain, and it isn’t even just healing from root issues. The ultimate goal here is actually leveling up my maturity so that I am gaining victory on a more regular basis for these things, and that all of these things contribute then to helping me do that.

[13:34] Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. On that note of making plans and thinking intentionally, I just want to encourage you: we’ve got a really simple tool that can help you be intentional with, “Okay, I didn’t just hear the Breakthrough series and think about these things, but I’m going to actually commit to starting to put this into action.”

I’ll put that link in the description for you to find a tool that will help you start planning out your strategy. I just encourage you to do it prayerfully and ask God (this could be a little overwhelming), “What’s one thing you want me to focus on right now? What’s one thing?” And just take it a step at a time and be intentional with it.

I hope that is helpful for you. I also want to encourage you, we are prepping a Q and A episode, and this is probably the last week I’m going to accept questions for that. So get your questions in. There’s a link in the description for that as well.

I feel like I had one more thing to say, but I’m gonna let you have the final thought. It really is an encouragement to hear the stories of people who are using this, who are seeing breakthroughs.

[14:58] Marcus: Well, one of the things that has been fun for us is to travel a lot with the ministry and meeting people in cities all across the country where they’re saying, “Oh, I listen to the podcast!”

That’s really encouraging to know that it feels like there’s an extension of the family, because other people feel like they know us, and they have a connection. It’s nice to feel like we have that connection with other people.

[15:24] Stephanie: I remembered my third thought, which was just wondering before you get into your final, final thought, if you could give some simple next steps besides reading the book Breakthrough!, is there anything that you would say, “Okay, you want to take your next step? We have this resource we can offer you, or we would recommend you look into this.”

[15:51] Marcus: Well, you’ve created the BUILD thing for people as they’re looking for a next step. Part of the point of this model is that everybody’s next step might be different and it’s one of the reasons why it’s difficult to say your next step should be X.

Because maybe your next step is related to the body, maybe it’s related to beliefs, maybe it’s related to attachment, maybe it’s related to Holy Spirit or wicked spirits. And so partly what we’re doing with this is the next step in general should be, “God, what do you want to deal with first?”

I always tell people, ask God to give you one thing. For example, I would have people who would open up and they’d tell me their life story. And after you listen to their life story, you’re like, oh, my word, what a mess, right?

The image in my mind was like spaghetti. It’s like they’ve got so many issues. And those issues intertwine with each other like noodles in a bowl and with sauce over it. And they’re like, “Pick the right noodle and pull it out.”

And I’m like, “The only person who can do that is the Holy Spirit. So, God, which noodle here do we need to start with?”  Because it’s not always the hardest thing in my life. But God knows what is the first thing.

So I tend to tell people, if you’re not connecting to God at all and you’re not getting any sense from him what to do, then start with breathing, and start with beliefs. Those are two of the easy things to start with.

And then when it comes to attachment, just this idea of, try to add a little bit of joy into a couple of relationships this week and pay attention to what happens when you can bring a little bit of joy into that relationship. So those are a couple samples of first steps that somebody might have.

[17:36] Stephanie: All right, thank you. And I will let you give us some final thoughts on this whole series.

[17:45] Marcus: Well, again, I guess my final thoughts on all of this is, the subtitle of the book has to do with freedom, healing and wholeness. And the idea is that sometimes we’re in bondage and we need freedom and we can’t make any progress on our journey until I get free from something.

And freedom, sometimes that’s what we’re after in our breakthroughs. I gotta get free from this thing before I can take my next step. There are also times when freedom gets easier as I’m building capacity in another area.

So, for example, one of the things I would say is that often growing my joy and my capacity for joy with other people will actually grow my capacity to connect with God better.

And it will increase my capacity to learn from the Bible, and it’ll increase my capacity for community. And so sometimes doing things to practice appreciation, practice quieting, practicing these skills that grow my capacity at that level is often a great place to start.

Because if I can grow that a little bit, it often gives me more ability to interact with everything else. And so if you’re just completely stuck, don’t know where else to go, I would say practice your quieting skills, practice your appreciation, and go from there.

[19:04] Stephanie: Very good. I’m feeling led to ask you, would you pray over our listeners as we close out?

[19:11] Marcus: Absolutely. Father in heaven, we are well aware that we are a needy people and that our needs keep us coming back to you again and again. But you’ve said that we can come to your throne of grace with boldness to ask for your help in our time of need, to ask for the mercy that we need along the way.

And so, Lord, that’s what we’re doing. And I just pray now from a Holy Spirit perspective that you would grant a fresh anointing to each person for the journey that you have for them. From the spiritual warfare perspective, that you would put a covering over them, that the blood of Jesus would cover them and give them protection from unnecessary attacks.

God, from an attachment perspective, that you would bless them with relational connection, that you’d bless them with greater joy in some relationships that are strained right now.

Lord, from a beliefs perspective, that you would give them some “aha” moments where they go, “Oh, wow, that is such a cool way to look at things. That’s a perspective that I need to hold on to.”

And God, physically, there are people who are just under so much physical problems right now that it’s difficult for them to think about anything else. And Lord, you are the only one who can touch their body and make them better.

I just pray that you’ll actually heal some people because of the prayer that we’re offering right now. And, Lord, that you would give in every case a sense of hope, a sense that you have a plan for each person who’s listening to this. So we commit all of your people into your care in Christ’s name. Amen.

[20:47] Stephanie: Amen.

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