57: 1-Year Anniversary Q&A

[00:07] Stephanie: Welcome to Deeper Walk’s on the Trail podcast. You are on the trail with father-daughter duo, Marcus and Stephanie Warner. I’m Stephanie, and I’ll be talking with my father, Dr. Marcus Warner, as we discuss topics that help you stay on the trail to a deeper walk with God. Season 1, episode 57. Today we are celebrating one year, going deeper with God on the trail together. Hello, my Father.

[00:31] Marcus: Hello, Daughter. Can’t believe it’s been a year.

[00:35] Stephanie: One year of podcasting. It has been a journey.

[00:38] Marcus: It has. This has been fun, it went fast.

[00:41] Stephanie: It did. We’ve covered so much ground. And yet I was actually laughing to myself earlier today that we are full circle, because where we are setting up our recording studio right now is in Michigan. This is where we recorded the FISH series, which was one of our earliest episodes.

[01:04] Marcus: Makes sense. We’re usually up here every year at this time, so it’s fun. For those who don’t know, my wife is from Michigan originally and has a lot of family up here. So we come back up to the Michigan area usually every July, August.

[01:20] Stephanie: Yeah, it feels like a celebration. And this time last year we were celebrating the release of A Deeper Walk, which is why we were doing the FISH series too, because FISH is central to a Deeper Walk.

[01:32] Marcus: And I just filed the manuscript as the companion book for A Deeper Walk, called Breakthrough!. And so we’ll have more to say about that I’m sure, but that’s not ready for release for another six months. So we’ll talk about that more, but I just turned it in so I’m excited about it.

[01:50] Stephanie: You’re feeling the relief of yes!, and the celebration of that too. So, yeah, there’s so much to celebrate. And we’ve so enjoyed being on the trail with you and getting to talk about so many different topics. And hey, you guys give me an opportunity to just intentionally sit down with my dad and talk about things and laugh together. So I love it. And for this episode, you all have submitted testimonies and questions and icebreakers.

I’m going to save those icebreakers for later because that will keep us laughing for other episodes. This one, we’re going to try to get to several questions and other stories that you have sent in. So stay tuned though, because at the end of the episode, I’m going to announce a free gift, a free resource, and a giveaway opportunity. Because it’s a party, we need to have some celebration.

Okay, there’s no way we can cover everybody’s submissions. So I will also just say I’m going to try to figure out ways to incorporate people’s questions and testimonies in future episodes. Thank you so much to everyone who shared with us your stories, your questions, your thoughts, and your icebreakers. We love to hear from you. So I’m going to start us off with this lovely testimony.

This listener says, “I just want to thank you for taking the time, thought, and work to put these On the Trail podcast together. I look forward to seeing them pop up in my email box each week and can hardly wait to listen to them. It’s so nice to have a teaching in more of a bite-sized format to help me comprehend these wonderful skills and concepts.” Thank you. That just warms my heart to hear.

[03:37] Marcus: It’s really nice. It is kind of funny. I think the two things we got the most were bite-sized and overwhelmed. It’s like, that was a lot of information and that was nice and bite-sized.

[03:48] Stephanie: We fire hose our bite size.

[03:50] Marcus: We do. We fire hose it.

[03:52] Stephanie: Yes. So I’m going to start us off with a question. Sophia says, “I have heard Marcus mention that he went through a season of anxiety. I’m currently in the throes of the darkness of the soul. How did he finally find relief? It’s difficult to gauge whether it’s environmental health, mental and physical or spiritual attack, or even a combination of it all. I’d love to hear his story, knowing that it won’t necessarily apply to everyone.”

[04:18] Marcus: Yeah, that’s a fair question. I’m one of these people who have lived pretty laid back. Most people who know me probably think of me as a relatively laid back person. And so it caught me off guard, and a lot of things happened. And what started happening for me was that I had a panic attack first. And at first it was just about what was going on in the world and how fast things were falling apart. And connected to that was my fear of money. I’m getting older or getting closer to retirement and wasn’t sure I had enough money for retirement.

And it was just sort of like everything hit at once and something snapped and I don’t know what it was. I mean, there’s a lot going on there. I also realized that underneath the anxiety was shame, and the shame was driving the anxiety because I felt like I’d made my bed and now I had to lay in it. And it was my fault that I was in most of the situations that I was in.

Part of me was like, I knew God could take care of me, but I didn’t know why he would. Right. Because you know, so there was this shame that was fueling the fear. And then what happens is, once you get past that initial wave of it, the fear just starts showing up in your body. And so my hand would start twitching. And then you’d think, well, why is my hand twitching? And you’d start thinking, oh, this must be anxiety. And then your mind goes, well, what is there to be anxious about right now?

Your mind starts thinking about it. And so what I found for me personally was that it was impossible to think my way out of anxiety, because every time I did it would spread. And then I’d feel heat in my chest. I’d feel heat in my face and my neck and I’m like, well, this stinks. And you’d cry out to God and you’d journal, and you’d say, God, here’s everything I’m feeling, please help me. And you’d try to quiet yourself so you could hear from God. And then I thought, well, maybe this is spiritual warfare, so I’m searching for root causes. How have I given ground? What do I need to renounce? I talked to people who did this stuff. It was a long thing.

And after a while you think, well, maybe I’m just going to have to live this way. Maybe this is my lot for the rest of my life, right? That you’re just going to have to learn how to deal with the fact that you’ve got this underlying stuff going on physically inside, and trying to be as functional as you can anyway. I didn’t know and I still don’t know the full answer because it wasn’t like I went to a counseling session and went, oh, okay, I’m all better now. It’s not like I had a prayer session and all of a sudden in the end of that prayer session, there was this amazing breakthrough experience.

But God put a lot of things together for me in this journey. We did warfare stuff, we did some inner healing things, we did a lot of physical exercise type things to try to calm that. And it’s not that it doesn’t happen anymore either. I think what I have learned now is that just because I’m feeling it in my body doesn’t mean it’s never going to go away. And I think that part of the fear was that I’m never going to get over this, this is never going to stop. And so that’s scary in and of itself.

So you start thinking about FDR quotes at that point. “We have nothing to fear but fear itself.” Now, one of the books that I did come across that was particularly helpful was Daniel Lancaster’s book Fear is a Liar. And I found that book to be helpful in just being concrete on some things on this. Also found that one of the things God did for me was we moved here to Michigan to take care of your grandfather, and Brenda’s dad, who at the time was coming down with dementia.

And so when we moved up here, the pace of life just changed, one. Two there was a new focus, where instead of just focusing on what’s going on with me, why am I this way? I could focus on him and take care of him. I was able to stay productive and keep working. And so with the combination of everything over time, I began noticing that I would have stretches of time where it wasn’t what it was. I found that I could get distracted out of it. And the other thing I found that was kind of interesting was that the number one, two things would distract me out of it most.

One was being relational with somebody where I was so connected relationally with a person, that I forgot about the anxiety. I realized, you know what I’m not feeling in my body right now. But just the thought of,  I’m not feeling it in my body right now, would usually bring it back. And the other thing was that I would sometimes watch a movie or something like that. And I do remember one time when we finished a funny movie I was feeling completely fine, and I went, it is possible for my body to feel like this. And so I have found that it….

[09:47] Stephanie: It’s possible for your body to not feel anxiety.

[09:50] Marcus: It’s possible for your body to not feel anxiety. And then I remember we moved back to Indiana and I remember standing in front of the Deeper Walk office in the parking lot and realizing, you know what, it’s been over 24 hours since I felt this. And I don’t know why. It was just sort of a cumulative thing over time. So I think that everybody’s got their own journey, but that one was mine.

[10:13] Stephanie: Thank you for sharing. Yeah, I’ve had bouts with anxiety. Not that strong, but I’ve had some bouts with anxiety. And I can resonate with a lot of what you’re saying, yes, that makes sense. And there is hope, and sometimes it can just be difficult to grasp the hope, but it is so important to recognize. Yeah, let me move on to the next one. So this person says, “I found the episode on resilience VCR to be so helpful. I have been able to apply this tool as I work with young children, interact with my aging parents and in my marriage. Thank you for sharing this tool in such an easy to understand way. And yes, I’m old enough to know what a VCR is”. We also had a question come in regarding VCR. So to follow up, someone asks, “How can I use VCR with a twelve year old girl who is experiencing a big emotion of fear right now, because her dad was just diagnosed with leukemia. She is experiencing stomach aches, worry, and many tears on a daily basis.”

[11:18] Marcus: Yeah, well, that’s a great question. So let’s just redefine this for folks who are not quite sure what we’re talking about.  VCR is, validate, comfort, and recover. And so I tend to say comfort because I’m from Indiana, but it’s comfort. The idea of validating somebody’s emotions starts with attuning to what those emotions are. Seeing them in those emotions and letting them know through your nonverbals that you see where they’re at. You don’t have to agree that they should be there. You’re not enabling them.

Some people are afraid, oh, if I connect too much with them in their emotion, then they get a lot of attention when they feel that way. Why don’t I just reinforce the negative emotion. And the answer is, it can go that way if it’s the only time you ever do this. But what we want to do is connect with people in those upsetting emotions nonverbally first and then also verbally. And we do that by saying, this is how big it is. This is the emotion you’re feeling. And sometimes it’s a complex emotion. So the goal is to get them nodding. A complex emotion would be something like with my story earlier, I wasn’t just feeling anxiety, I was feeling shame.

And honestly, despair started to kick in because you’re thinking, this is never going to end. This is hopeless. And so now it would be overly simplistic to just say, hey, you’re battling anxiety, when the reality is you’re battling shame, you’re battling hopelessness and despair. You get some anger in there, like, why is this happening? And so before you know it, you can have four or five really big emotions going on at the same time. So one of the challenges in validating somebody like this is that she’s going to have a lot of emotions, right?

Fear may be the most obvious one, but there’s also going to be times when she’s just mad that she’s even got to deal with this. There’s going to be times when she’s feeling like, is somehow this my fault? I mean, she’s going to have all kinds of thoughts and ideas. Validating is a great thing and it also takes the responsibility for trying to fix people off of us.

And the idea is not, if I validate this person perfectly they’ll get better. And the idea is not also not to draw attention to what a good job of validating you’re doing. You want to keep it about them. And then when it comes to comforting you’re just trying to offer them perspectives and a simple plan. What’s one or two things that you could do, that maybe will just distract you out of it for a while, or get you thinking about something else for a while.

Understanding that you’re not going to “fix” this because this is going to be ongoing for a period of time, and there’s going to be highs and there’s going to be lows. There’s going to be different big emotions throughout the day, let alone throughout the journey. So it’s a good question. I wish there was a simple thing, hey, this is what you do, she’ll be fine. But really this is more of her knowing that she’s not alone in the journey. That no matter what happens there are going to be people who go through this with her and that they see her. And no matter what emotion she feels, she’s still going to be accepted.

[14:43] Stephanie: Thank you. I think at the end of the episode, I would love it if we could stop and pray for these people who are asking these very important questions. But for now, I’m going to move on to the next one. Bonnie says, “I have listened to every episode. I anticipate these with joy every week. So often they have perfectly coordinated with my classes in the School of Ministry, providing an extra dimension as the two of you have dialogue about the topics.

I also love that you are modeling a joyful relationship between father and child, which conveys what that might look like with the Heavenly Father and his child. Thank you for so faithfully producing each episode.” Thank you, Bonnie. I’m glad we can take some small part in that.

[15:32] Marcus: I know it’s true as well. It is kind of amazing that we get to do this and it’s always amazing when something you do is helpful to somebody else. It’s very nice.

[15:45] Stephanie: So, yeah, we’ve built a lot of community and I love that she mentioned the School of Ministry. It is wonderful.

[15:53] Marcus: Yeah, I know. I don’t know which class she’s in honestly,  I haven’t looked  to see who this is specifically. I know that Dawn Whitestone and Greg Newmayer and Nik Harrang have been leading the courses and we’ve had a lot of great feedback. I met with a couple of the classes now and there’s some impressive people right in the school of ministry. I think it’s going to make a big difference because a lot of lives are going to get touched.

[16:22] Stephanie: Yes, Huzzah!  Listeners, if you think of it, pray for our students in the School of Ministry. They have many ministries of their own.

[16:33] Marcus: Yes, they do. There’s a lot of lives being touched that we wouldn’t have any access to.

[16:38] Stephanie: Yep. All right, next question. A woman asks, “How do you build a deeper connection and belonging with your church when all attempts of introducing this material and others like it, for instance, Dr. Wilder, Chris Coursey have failed? My people and those I have built a deep bond with moved away about five years ago. Not just one person, but four significant bonds to include my spiritual mom and family. I am divorced and my adult children are in college and one active duty military. I am a survivor and on the healing journey for many years.”

[17:11] Marcus: That’s a lot. Yeah, that’s a lot of stuff.

[17:15] Stephanie: I’m going to add one more person. Another person asked similarly, “Because of my age and disability, I am seldom with other people. I use Facebook for worship and also YouTube for your videos. Do you have an idea for how I can have face to face contact?”

[17:34] Marcus: Yeah, those are big deals. Isolation takes pain and makes it traumatizing. Right. So when I feel all alone even if I’m surrounded by people, I can feel all alone because I feel like people don’t get me, and they don’t see me. And so when I’m in a church and something is super important to me and it’s really making a difference in my walk and other people don’t get it, there’s a part of that where I feel unseen. And I feel unvalidated. Like, don’t you care that this is making such a big difference for me?

And it could make a big difference for other people. So it brings up a whole lot of emotions as well as this sense of I really want to share this, but I want to feel like I belong, and I’m with my people, right? So how can I feel like these are my people if they don’t seem to be in step with where I’m at? And then there’s the other issue of just isolation because of things that are outside of your control. So let me give you just a couple thoughts here.

One is that I remember Dr. Wilder saying that he would have clients when he was practicing as a clinical psychologist who are often isolated. And the years I’ve been doing this, a lot of the people who’ve come to see me have been very isolated people. And what happens is he would do a couple of things. Number one is he would actually have them map out who are the people that they see on a daily basis, even if it’s just somebody at a checkout line or the mailman or something like that. Who do I see every day? Who do I see once a week? Who do I know I’m going to see once a month and actually just map it out on a calendar.

Then try to find a way to add a little bit of joy into every interaction that you have with all of those people. And what happens then is that collectively, your experiences of joy increase. I know the frustration of looking for a church that really feels like it connects with where you’re at. We were attending a really large church and decided to go to a small one for the express reason that I wanted to be someplace that didn’t just tolerate what I did. I wanted to be at a church that was excited about what I was doing. Now, that’s not always an option.

If you find yourself in a church community that really isn’t helping with this heart focused journey that you’re on, it doesn’t always mean God’s calling you away from there. It does mean you’ve got to find that somewhere else. And so that’s what journey groups can do online. That’s what the other cohort kind of things are that we do online. They can be a filler to fill in some of those holes, some of the gaps. It’s also where you just begin collecting people as you can. And ask God specifically, he’s the shepherd and he’s putting together the flock.

Just asking Him on a regular basis, send somebody today, send somebody today. Because kind of like dealing with anxiety, you’re always looking for the big home run that’s going to make the breakthrough to make this all stop. And sometimes it’s more a matter of hitting a single every day. All my baseball analogies, but it’s just a matter of doing something positive on a consistent basis until it begins gathering some momentum.

[21:20] Stephanie: Yeah, I agree. All right next up, Sophia says, “Marcus is a gifted teacher.”

[21:28] Marcus: Thank you. That’s all I needed to hear.

[21:32] Stephanie: I love the storytelling happening in this one. “He takes heady theological topics and breaks them down to bite sized pieces anyone can understand. I first heard him years ago on Moody Radio promoting Rare Leadership. I bought the book for my pastor, but had my husband read it first. From that book, we found our way to Steps to Freedom in Christ. Then I found Deeper Walk International and signed up for the Free Spiritual Warfare Conference. I must have watched the conference a few times over and shared it with all my friends. I loved the content so much that I became a Trailblazer partner just so I can keep watching 30 plus years of content. I have since found my way to your podcast and have loved every episode, have listened to every episode. I hope you love them.”

[22:15] Marcus: All right.

[22:16] Stephanie: “You can feel the love you two share for one another. Love it. Keep up the great work.” Strong arm emoji.

[22:23] Marcus: Ooh.

[22:24] Stephanie: Thank you, Sophia. You make me grin. All right, one more question.

[22:30] Marcus: Sure, let’s do it.

[22:32] Stephanie: One listener says, “You talk about our brains needing joy. What does joy look like in the brain, and what does joy look like biblically? How do they relate? Could you expand on the idea of acting like myself?”

[22:46] Marcus: Yeah. Let’s bring a couple of these things together. First of all, joy in the brain and joy in the Bible are not identical concepts, just so we’re clear. For example, the most common word for joy in the Old Testament is shaimcha , right? I think I said that right. Shaimcha. This Hebrew word, for most of the time that it’s used, is what we would call happiness. Right? It’s saying, we won the battle. Yay. Victory is ours. I’m feeling joy. Or the harvest just came in and it was abundant. We’re having a feast and everybody’s happy. I feel joy. Right? That’s the most common use of that word in the Bible.

And then when Jesus came and he said, “I have come so that you might have joy, that your joy might be complete.” One of the things we miss sometimes even in that happiness, is that it is always, even in the Bible, always shared. It’s a relational thing. So in other words, it’s not just one person feeling joy because there was a battle. The whole community is feeling joy.

The whole community is celebrating the harvest together. There’s this idea that we are collectively really happy about this. And our happiness is bouncing off of each other and growing and making it more. So when Jesus says I’ve come that your joy may be complete, he’s saying it’s going to grow relationally with me and grow relationally with other people. And that’s where it begins connecting to the brain.

Because joy happens in the brain in the relational part of the brain at a basic chemical level. There’s things like dopamine that just means I’m feeling pleasure. And there’s other hormones like this and honestly, I still forget some of them. I have to look them up now and then. I lean on Chris Coursey and Jim to make sure I get those right. But the idea is that relational connection is intimately connected to joy from a brain perspective. And if you look a little deeper into the Bible, what you begin to realize is there is an implied relational element to the joy in all of those things.

Even though at first it looks like, oh, they’re just responding to something good happening. They are, but they’re responding to something good happening relationally and collectively. That’s the idea. The good news about both is that I can have joy, past, present, and future. I can think back on things in the past, I can experience joy of what’s going on in the present, and I can think about joy in the future. I would also point out that feeling that joy doesn’t mean all the other negative emotions go away. But the good news is that just because I’m having other negative emotions doesn’t mean joy is not possible.

[25:55] Stephanie: So that segues really well into could you expand on the idea of acting like myself?

[26:00] Marcus: Yeah. So acting like myself again, from a brain perspective is that I am functioning from the part of my brain that is the joy center and the identity center. And so I would say my true self is my relational self. It’s who I am when I’m being relational. This always bothers introverts, right? So you could probably speak to this.

[26:26] Stephanie: I’m an outgoing introvert.

[26:27] Marcus: You’re an outgoing introvert. Yeah. And I’ve tested both ways, I really don’t know why. Acting like yourself, being your relational self is, you think about who you are when you’re not your relational self. When I’m not my relational self I just want everybody to go away and leave me alone. I just want to solve problems by myself. I see people as problems and I wish they would just get out of here.

You’re not going to get my best self when I am that way. On the other hand, when I am thinking about happy things, when I’m anticipating happy things, and when I am being relational, my best self automatically comes forward. So acting like myself is my relational self. And the fuel of my relational self is joy. And that kind of brings those three things together.

[27:22] Stephanie: You can be joy filled and still also be grieving something or be righteously angry about something.

[27:34] Marcus:  And that’s just it. It’s like when I’m going through something hard the relational connection with other people could be really helpful. That’s why we often don’t advise grieving people to just go off and be by themselves and be all alone, at least not for an extended period of time. Everybody has to do a little bit of that. But there’s people who just leave and then they disappear. That’s not healthy, right?

We need relational connection. We need people to help us stay in the relational part of our brains so that we don’t get overwhelmed by the things that are going on. Now. One of the reasons that some people do that just in fairness to them, is that the main people they’re trying to connect to as they’re going through it, are toxic and it’s not helping. And so if you are in that situation it’s kind of understandable.

You’re pulling away because there just isn’t anybody who’s actually sharing it with you in a VCR sort of way. Nobody’s validating and comforting you, they are just making it worse. So I just want to put a caveat on that. There can be a situation where you have no choice.

[28:42] Stephanie: Then you can try to find the people who will.

[28:47] Marcus: In which case you have to look beyond the immediate, what’s right in your face, to look for where you can find a little bit of joy here, a little bit of joy there. I like what Chris Corsi says, “ A little bit of joy can go a long way.”

[29:04] Stephanie: Huzzah for that! And Huzzah for, it is time to announce all the free things. I love gift giving. It’s one of my love languages and I’m excited to throw all the gifts at you right now. So first, a free gift. Did you know Deeper Walk has a streaming service? It’s called Learning Library and we have a basic version that is free to anyone, where you can get instant access to dozens of webinars and several Deeper Walk courses for free.

The premium tier includes basic plus videos from almost every Deeper Walk conference and class we’ve offered. Including topics like heart focused discipleship, spiritual warfare, emotional healing, brain science, relational skills, marriage and parenting, leadership, and biblical foundations. Guys, it has so much. To celebrate On the Trail’s one year anniversary, we are giving away one month free of Learning Library premium to anyone who listens to the podcast. There is no expiration on it.

So if you’re listening to this podcast months later, you can still receive this gift. Use code stream free, S-T-R-E-A-M-F-R-E-E. Stream free, no spaces to get one month free. This code can be applied once per user account and please feel free to share it with others. You can visit DeeperWalk’s website and find the learning library under the online learning tab. Second, a giveaway opportunity. We are giving away a one year subscription to the Learning Library Premium, and you can enter this giveaway by going to Deeper Walk’s, Instagram, or Facebook accounts, or my Monday emails, and filling out the giveaway form posted there. It will be open for entries through August 7, 2023.

So that’s celebrating one year of podcasting. We’re giving away one year of the Learning Library premium.

All right, third, a free resource. Thanks to our generous donors, we have a free video curriculum for you. This podcast launched amid the hype and anticipation of the release of the book A Deeper Walk. I’m so happy to announce that Dad has recorded ten videos, about ten minutes each that can serve as companion teaching. Alongside his book you can find the A Deeper Walk video curriculum for free at Deeper Walk’s website, included in the Learning Library Basic. So any thoughts on that, Father?

[31:27] Marcus: That sounds like a pretty good deal to me. I look back on our conferences and we’ve done conferences on dissociative identity disorder. We’ve done conferences on PTSD. We’ve done conferences on things related to addiction. So there’s a lot of stuff here. We’ve had narcissism information. Once you get into the Premium service that we’re talking about here, there really is a level of depth available here. Plus we’ve got other speakers. So I’ve brought in Jim Wilder in these conferences, Dan Rumberger who’s also a clinical psychologist, Karl Payne’s in a lot of them, and Alaine Pakkala who specializes with complex trauma. We’ve got Heather Gingrich who’s also a complex trauma expert.

I could go on and on and on. So what happens is you start getting access to people who can really take a little bit deeper dive in here. Like, I look at myself and I kind of chuckle a little bit that people look at me as an expert on so many things. I feel like what I’m doing is introducing them to the experts. Let me introduce you to what I’ve learned from Jim. Let me introduce you to what I’ve learned from Alaine. Let me introduce you to what I’ve learned from people like this. I love to learn from experts and then explain it to people which is a little different than actually being the expert. So I like this. And I think that the Learning Library gives everybody the opportunity to do that, go in and learn from people who’ve been doing this for a long time.

[32:58] Stephanie: Huzzah! All right. I’m saying that a lot, aren’t I? It’s a party.

[33:02] Marcus: Huzzah! Yeah, let’s do it.

[33:04] Stephanie: All right.

[33:05] Marcus: Did we ever figure out, is that a British word? Where did that come from?

[33:09] Stephanie: I can’t remember the actual etymology of it, but it’s a shout.

[33:14] Marcus: Exactly. Hip, hip, Huzzah!.

[33:16] Stephanie: So instead of closing thoughts or in addition to closing thoughts for this episode. I thought it would be lovely if you could pray for our listeners, especially those whose questions we dealt with today.

[33:29] Marcus: Yeah, absolutely. Let’s pray. Father in Heaven, we are thankful that you are a God of eternity. You are outside of time, and you are a God who dwells in a high end lofty place, but is also close to the broken hearted. And, Father, I pray for each person today whose heart is hurting, whose heart is fearful, heart is feeling shame or hopelessness, or anger. And God, my father often said, “We are a needy people, but we want to bring our needs to you.”

As the New Testament says, we cast our cares upon you because you care for us. So I do pray that you will supply unexpected provisions for those who are listening. For those who are praying and seeking you for solutions to the problems that they face, for the breakthrough that they need. We ask that you would just bind the enemy, place a hedge of protection around each one, and that you will provide the path to breakthrough that we all need for various things that we face. In Christ’s name. Amen.

[34:40] Stephanie: Amen. All right. Thank you, everyone, for joining us On the Trail. Today Deeper Walk exists to make heart focused discipleship the norm for Christians everywhere. If you’d like to support this cause, you can become a Deeper Walk Trailblazer with your monthly donation of $25 or more.

And if you want to keep going deeper with us on your walk with God, please subscribe to the On The Trail podcast, leave a review, and share with your friends.

Thanks again. We’ll see you back next week.