24: Theology of Prayer (Jumpstart Your Prayer Life, Part 1) | S4E24

(00:00) Stephanie Warner:  Welcome back to Season 4, episode 24. Hello, Father.

(00:05) Marcus Warner: Hello, Daughter.

(00:07) Stephanie Warner: Good to be with you on this fine day.

(00:10) Marcus Warner: Yeah, the sun is shining. Still got a little snow out there.

(00:14) Stephanie Warner: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I went out in my winter coat to come to the studio and then thought I don’t need this. So that is fun. The other thing that is fun is that we are starting a new series today. The goal of this series is to help you go on a deeper walk with God, specifically in your prayer life. And so today we’re going to be covering a theology of prayer. We have another free resource for you. Last series, we had our DIY book club kit for The Spirit-Filled Home.

This series, we want to alert you to the Listening Prayer Starter Kit, which is designed to help you walk through three styles of prayer that we hope are helpful. And by the end of the series, we will also walk you through those three styles, but we’re going to start with theology. You can find links to that in the description. All right, theology of prayer. We’re gonna just start super basic foundational here. What is theology and why is it a good starting place for here?

(01:27) Marcus Warner: Yeah, that’s an excellent question. Theology is literally the study of God, but there are several kinds of theology out there. There’s a biblical theology where you start with the Bible, and you try to summarize what it is teaching in the categories that it uses. That’s biblical theology, which is confusing to people who haven’t been in academic circles because they’re like well, isn’t it all biblical? Yes, it’s all anchored in the Bible, but for instance, in biblical theology you might say well, of all the things that John wrote—Revelation, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John, and the Gospel of John—what’s his “theology?” What does he emphasize, and what things are important to him?

That might be one approach, or what is Paul emphasizing versus Luke? So you’re looking at different things. Systematic theology is where basically people ask questions about Christianity, and then we go back to the Bible as the anchor for those answers, but we also bring in logic and research, and other things. And it’s a little bit more apologetic, and asking, is there a system to the way life works from a biblical perspective? So the focus is on the text and what are the authors trying to say.

What we’re looking at is systematic theology which is more focused on, here’s the questions I have, help me answer them. So that’s very important. The other thing that helps me when I think about theology, is that I just think of it as worldview. They’re not exactly the same, but they’re pretty close. There is a lens through which I look at life, and my theology will determine the lens through which I look at life. That will then determine the values that I embrace and the behavior that I practice. And so getting our worldview set up front is really important.

(03:31) Stephanie Warner: Yeah, it’s very practical. And so why is it a good starting place for a topic of prayer?

(03:39) Marcus Warner: Well, because there’s some disagreement on this, and a lot of the disagreements circle around the understanding of sovereignty. One of the questions people ask is, does prayer even matter? Hasn’t God just already decided what he’s going to do and that’s going to happen regardless, or not? And so that’s the obvious theological question that people ask. You also get into stuff like the divine council and Is God the only one making decisions? Are there other people making decisions? How does all of this work? So there’s some interesting elements to it.

(04:18) Stephanie Warner: We have presuppositions or things that we have learned growing up in our denominations. And so it’s just helpful to get us on the same page for a little bit of how we’re thinking about things. So on that note, you already alluded to it. A potentially controversial question would be, does prayer actually change things?

(04:45) Marcus Warner: Right. So we’ve got a couple of options here. One, is that God essentially put a software program in at the beginning of the world and is letting it run. And the stuff that we do has already been factored in. So one way of looking at it is that there are three answers to this. Yes, it changes things. No, it doesn’t change anything, it’s already decided. And there’s a middle path that says, well, God knowing the future has already factored in all of our prayers, so his plan already has them factored in.

So yes, it changes things, but no, it doesn’t change any of his plans. So you get all these different things from a theological perspective. I look at it practically and functionally, God wants us to live as if prayer changes things. And the Bible teaches us that prayer changes things. One of my favorite passages on the idea that everything isn’t just automatically set, is from 1 Samuel.  David is fleeing from Saul and he’s outside of a city, I think it’s K-E-I-L-A-H. People call it Kayla,, Keela….. I don’t know how people want to pronounce it? He asked God a question. He said, Is Saul going to come for me? And God says, Yes. He said, Will these people hand me over to Saul? And God says, Yes.

So David leaves and takes off, and none of those “yeses” come true. Saul doesn’t come after him and the people don’t hand him over to Saul because David left. And that is like, wait a second. Didn’t God say this was going to happen? What it tells us is that God knows not only what is happening, but he knows all possible worlds. He knows all possible avenues in which things are going to go. David’s interaction with God in prayer actually changed, what God said would have happened If he hadn’t interacted with him in prayer, and obeyed him. And so we see that all through life and not just in prayer.

Our choices make a difference. Our actions make a difference. God can work all these things together for good, because he foresees all of these things, and brings them together. Prayer is presented as this could change how things actually happen in your life. It might seem obvious, but sometimes it’s good just to know that is actually true.

(07:23) Stephanie Warner:  I think sometimes we want to like, dissect the mind of God or we need to understand what’s actually happening here. And I think that there is a nobility in that pursuit a little bit, we want to wrestle with things and try to figure things out. But also there is a Job in the whirlwind going, “Ah, yep, you are greater!”  And so I really like how you framed it in terms of, well whatever’s happening, this is how God is presenting it to us. He would like for us to act as though it is actually changing things.

(08:05) Marcus Warner: Yeah, the other extreme on this is people who treat prayer like a way of getting what they want.  Now James talks about this. He says, what causes wars and battles among you? What causes conflict? He said, it’s because you desire things and you have a passion for them and you don’t get what you want. You need to pray and learn to ask God for what you want. You also get things like Psalm 23:1, where it says, “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.” God takes care of things that we don’t even think to pray about, but there are also things that only happen because we pray.

But we shouldn’t be thinking that I can get whatever I want if I pray correctly or if I do this just right. And that’s also where you get into the theology that some people teach if you follow a particular prayer pattern, if you pray correctly and with the right mindset, with enough faith, then you can create the reality that you want, the way that you want it to be. That’s not the purpose of prayer anyway. So we’ll talk a little bit more about what a proper approach to prayer actually is.

(09:21) Stephanie Warner: Yep, prayer is not magic. It’s a relationship, which we will get to. So on that note, do you want to talk a little bit more about sovereignty, God’s sovereignty in prayer?

(09:35) Marcus Warner: Yeah, so that’s kind of what I’ve been talking about. The word sovereignty comes from the fact that God is sovereign, and sovereign is just an old English word for King. And so we might say, God is “kingly”.  Because he’s the King… but you might say, “What does that mean?” Most of us have never lived in an area that not only has a king, but certainly not one who had the kind of authority that a king in biblical times would have had. The king in biblical times was a lawmaker. He was a judge and he was the head of the army. So he was the head of all three branches of government.

He was the head of Congress. He was the head of the Executive branch. He was the head of the military. He was the head of the Justice Department. Everything was finished with the king. And so a good king made sure that all of those things were running well, that there really was justice that was taking place in all of those areas.

He didn’t have to come up with every idea himself, but he was the one who finally gave approval to it. Yes, we’re going to do it this way. And so God is the ultimate king, and we see God functioning in much the same way. One of the curious things in the Bible is that we teach from a systematic theology perspective that God being sovereign knows everything. He’s omnipotent, he has all power, he’s omniscient, and he knows everything. So we tend to think that well, God just knows and God just does things.

But the Bible actually presents God as a very just King who looks into things.  Before he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, he sent two angels there to investigate the claims against it to see if they were really true. God being omniscient and God knowing all things, he didn’t have to do that. He could have just made a decision and pulled the trigger. But what we see God doing is even in the way that he exercises his sovereign control over the affairs of life, he does things the right way.

And so if he declares that it takes two witnesses to establish somebody’s guilt, he’s going to send two witnesses to establish that they’re guilty. And even the punishment that we see God giving to people for crimes, the punishment always fits the crime. In fact, the most common thing we see is that what they have done comes back on themselves. They fall into the pit they have made for somebody else. The bad thing they wanted to do to somebody else happens to them. So the classic example of this is Haman in the Book of Esther. He has built this high pole for impaling Mordecai and he himself ends up impaled upon it. So that’s justice. That’s the classic example of justice.

The other form of justice is God giving somebody over to what they want. Fine, if you want that, you can have it. You want to see what life is like without me? You can have life without me. And so we see God not just being arbitrary and not doing things just because he is this omniscient, omnipotent being, but God is actually doing things the right way. He is looking into things and making sure that what he does is just.

One of the other things that kings would do is they would take petitions from people. Part of their role as king and judge was to not only hear petitions about deciding a justice case for them, but they would hear petitions for provision and  petitions for justice. Provisions for all kinds of things. And that’s really where the idea of prayer comes from. The image of prayer is that I have an appointment with the king to offer up a petition. And that petition could be, King, I’ve got injustice in my life, would you set this right? Would you take care of the injustice? That would be a petition.

Or, Oh King, I have a need. I had a terrible thing happen, our farm was destroyed and I need provision. Or it might be, King, there is an enemy coming from outside and we need protection. But you’re making a petition to the King and asking him to step in and do something about what is going on in your life. And that is the foundational idea behind prayer, we are coming to the King to offer up a petition for what it is that we need. With the promise that we have a good and just King who isn’t going to let those prayers go unanswered.

(14:25) Stephanie Warner: Hmm. That was really really good.

(14:26) Marcus Warner: Now what we don’t do, is we don’t tell them how to do it. So I don’t say, King, there’s an enemy coming, would you please put some cannons on the high place over here, and set up some troops over there?  I don’t tell them how to do it. I’m just saying,  here’s my problem, would you please supply an answer?

(14:45) Stephanie Warner: I want to get back to this idea of petitioning. So things that happen in a courtroom would be petitioning for justice, petitioning for mercy, petitioning for provision, but there would also be worship and praise. Can you talk about that angle a little bit?

(15:03) Marcus Warner: Yeah,  the other thing that kind of sets God apart is that not only do we have two settings for thinking about prayer, one is the courtroom and the other is the temple. And so in the courtroom, we’re talking petitions, and in the temple, we’re talking praise and worship. And I remember when I taught high school, I had a girl in one of the classes go, isn’t God a bit of an egomaniac? Does he need people telling him how great he is all the time? You know, what is up with all this demand for praise? Praise me, praise me, I’m amazing! She says that doesn’t seem right. And that gets back to theology. So what’s the theology of praise? Are we praising God because he’s an egomaniac who needs to feel good about himself? What’s going on here?

And the answer is that it’s for us, because we need an absolute point of reference around which to build our lives. Praise is the way in which we keep ourselves anchored to that absolute point of reference in the center of everything else.

It reminds us of where everything comes from. It reminds us of how life works. It doesn’t only remind us intellectually of these things, but it relationally bonds us to God as a person. And so when you think about it, praise is a very joy bonding experience. We tell our kid, you did such a good job! That’s so awesome! That’s a joy bonding moment for the child and the parent. And when you praise somebody that becomes the foundation for a joyful attachment. God isn’t doing this because his ego needs it.

One, it helps us just theologically keep our orientation straight. But two, it also promotes a joy bond with Him rather than a fear bond with Him. So praise becomes a very important part of worship. The other part of that is confession and atonement, mercy and restoration. God, I have really messed up. I walked away from you. I didn’t trust you. I didn’t do things your way. I need to be restored. There is a courtroom petition element of that, and there is a temple, “please restore and take care of my sin.”  It helps me to think in those two terms when I’m approaching God in prayer, sometimes it’s really a courtroom move, and sometimes it’s a temple

(17:46) Stephanie Warner: I really like that imagery. I also wanted to say, we were talking about prayer the other day and you made a comment about how praise isn’t just the thing you do, before you ask for something. And I liked that and I wanted to call it out because it’s absolutely good to open with praise before going into your petitions or things like that. That’s not a bad thing at all.  I just love the idea that we can set aside time to just praise God. It doesn’t have to be just, “and now that I’ve given you praise, can you help me out?” That’s not the point of it.

(18:30) Marcus Warner: Yeah, it’s not the quarter that you stick in the slot machine before you can get your- whatever. I don’t know if you get anything for a quarter these days. When that is happening, it’s a sign that I am taking a very fear bonded approach to my prayer life. Like I better make God happy first, and then I’ll ask him for something. We understand that they have different functions.

(18:58) Stephanie Warner: Yep, it’s okay to blend the different things. It’s just, what are your motivations there or how are you thinking about it? I remember as a child in school and such being taught a certain kind of formula or template for when you pray, like do X, Y, Z. And again, it’s good, but just…

(19:18) Marcus Warner:  I think the most common one was ACTS. Adoration, confession, thanksgiving, and then supplication. Those things are helpful, but they’re all elements of prayer. It can become very formulaic. Almost like, I can’t get to the supplication until I have properly praised him, and thanked him and confessed whatever sins I have. And it can actually lead to warped theology if you’re not careful. I have to tell God how great he is first and then I have to admit how bad I am second, and then I have to be thankful for something, and then I can finally get around to what I’m actually here for.

That’s not the way you see it in the Psalms. Some of the Psalms start with questions for God, like how long is this going to go on God? How long am I going to have to live in this state where I’m not getting justice and things are not being fair to me, and I have to deal with this? And then it said, but then I remind myself that you are the King, I enter your temple and I get a new perspective. And then I come back and I realize, okay, I can trust you, but how long God?

(20:35) Stephanie Warner: Yeah. He meets us where we’re at.

(20:37) Marcus Warner: And I tell people all the time, God is far more interested in our honesty than in our perfection.  When we pray, God would be much more interested in us being honest in our prayers then he is in us being perfect in our prayers. That, okay, I did this correctly. He cares very little about doing it correctly. He cares about that we were actually doing it from our heart.

(21:02) Stephanie Warner: Heart focused prayer.

(21:04) Marcus Warner: There you go. Sounds like a book.

(21:08) Stephanie Warner: So, all right, I’m just gonna note it here, but I do think it will fit well into the next episode. Another aspect of prayer is coming to God not just as our King, but as our Father, as our friend. And so we can talk about that more next episode. Let’s linger a little bit more on the petitioning. I just had this question, how does listening prayer and the SLOW kind of model work with petitions? Are they different?

(21:38) Marcus Warner: So SLOW, just to remind people is stop, listen, obey, watch, or sometimes seek, listen, obey and watch. Seek is to ask God for things. So petition is built into the “S”’ of slow. I am petitioning God for something. Then having petitioned I am listening and checking, is there something for me to obey in this? Because sometimes the obedience is wait. And sometimes the obedience is don’t do anything, which can be the hardest command at all. Don’t try to fix this yourself. That’s hard to hear sometimes. And sometimes God does give us something to do. And then we watch and it’s like Habakkuk who goes up into his rampart. He watches after he made his petition to the King. He said, I’m going to go up into my rampart and I’m going to watch and see what happens.

So SLOW is a really nice model for helping us think through what to do in terms of petitioning the king. The two Hebrew words that are translated “seek” both mean to inquire. And to inquire is to ask. And generally what I’m doing is I’m either asking for power, and that’s power for God to provide something that I need. Power for protection, power for something like this. Or I’m asking for wisdom. God, I need to understand this, help me to know about this, what do you want me to think about this? And in both cases, God may say, yeah, you don’t need to know that, or you don’t actually need the power that you think you do. You need power for perseverance, not power for solving this time.

So it’s interactive. When we come with our petitions, the King may speak back to us and say, well, what I really want for you right now is for you to learn some patience. Or what I really want for you right now is to rest and watch me provide, instead of you wearing yourself out trying to make complete provision for everything going on. So those are all elements of it.

(23:41) Stephanie Warner: This is good. This is great.  I’m so excited for all of our conversations for this series. Don’t forget everyone, you can check out the link in the description for your free listening prayer starter kit, if you would like to start putting some things into practice. Or maybe think outside the box a little bit, that might sound bad. If you find that your prayer life has been one way or your approach to prayer has been one way, it might be refreshing to get inspired in some new ways. We are just so pleased to be on the trail with you. Thank you to everyone who keeps us here. And we’re just enjoying the journey with you. Father, would you have any final thoughts for this episode?

(24:30) Marcus Warner: So after all that stuff on theology and neuroscience thoughts on prayer, I find that fear and joy have a lot to do with our prayer life. There are a lot of people like me who love studying the Bible and have found prayer very difficult. And I find in most of those cases it’s because they were fear bonded to God. And that’s why their prayer life was always a struggle. It felt like a duty and a discipline they had to master.

They tend to look at prayer almost exclusively as a discipline. And I find that happens more the fear-bonded I am to God. And so one of the things we want to understand in our theology of prayer is that God’s ultimate goal, and one of the reasons for the command for praise, is to foster that joyful connection with Him. That makes joy, a relational experience, a joyful experience and not just the duty to discharge.

(25:31) Stephanie Warner: Very good. Talk to you again next week.