75: Forming & Filling

[00:07] Stephanie: Welcome to Deeper Walk’s On the Trail podcast. You are on the trail with father-daughter duo, Marcus and Stephanie Warner. I’m Stephanie, and I’ll be talking with my father, Dr. Marcus Warner, as we discuss topics that help you stay on the trail to a deeper walk with God. Season 1, episode 75. Today we are starting a new series inspired by Advent and the Incarnation.

Hello, Father.

[00:32] Marcus: Hello, Daughter. It’s an interesting combination, Advent and the Incarnation.

[00:37] Stephanie: Yeah. I’m going to throw us for another loop because I’m going to have you start us in Genesis and it’s just going to be great. But first, today’s icebreaker, tis the season for putting up Christmas lights. What color or colors do you prefer?

[00:55] Marcus: I am a multicolor guy for the most part. I can appreciate white and blue. I also like it when people have their trees wrapped. But it bothers me when they put the Led green on the bottom because green should be where the leaves are, in my opinion. I’m like put the red on the bottom, put the green on the top.

[01:14] Stephanie: You are very artistic actually. And yes, people might not know that about you. You can do a nice sketch.

[01:24] Marcus: My mom was an artist.

[01:27] Stephanie: Yes. When I was a child I loved multicolor lights and I kind of thought white lights were boring. But then as I grew up (mom loves white lights) I came to really appreciate them. And now I feel like as long as they are done well I like them both  equally. I like white and multicolored. It’s also fun when people just have like, I know mom likes the blue lights on a silver tree or things like that.

[01:58] Marcus: Well, and some of it is age. I mean, I don’t think I saw anything but multicolored lights till I was in my 20s. So it was just a thing.

[02:06] Stephanie: Yeah, but we like them. Awesome. Well, I’ve been praying about how to close this year. We’ve gone through so much. We started with resilience, and we’ve done a lot of joy and relational skills type stuff this year with brain science and bounce. We’ve done a lot of identity, authority, and spiritual warfare sort of stuff. And we’re coming right into Advent season. And so I couldn’t get Advent out of my mind. I just thought, I would love to do Advent.

But then I also just kept thinking about the Incarnation. I don’t know how to describe this. I was thinking about Genesis, I was thinking about Isaiah, and I was thinking about the Gospels. And it was all just kind of coming together to where I’m like, Dad, will you walk us through Genesis one? And you’re forming and filling and I promise we have a reason for it. And so I’m actually going to ask you that question in just a moment. But I wanted to pull back and actually start with what is Advent? And why do we care? Because I think some traditions really value it and some traditions don’t. So, yeah, I guess I’ll start with that question.

[03:21] Marcus: All right, so I grew up in a tradition that I didn’t even know there was such a thing as Advent for most of my life. We were two generations removed from Mennonite, and they were anti anything to do with the state church, that sort of thing. I began to realize once I became a pastor you deal with the inevitable materialization of Christmas and then I discovered Advent. I realized, oh, there is this tradition that’s really ancient in Christian circles. So taking these four weeks and using them to meditate and gathering the family.

And so we started doing the Advent wreath and candles at our church even though it was a non denominational church, and having different people share Christmas readings and family stories. And then at some point along the way I decided to write a little Deeper Walk Guide to Advent. Partly with the idea like, this is an awesome opportunity to get regrounded in the Incarnation. Because that’s really what Christmas is all about, is the incarnation.

And once you start getting grounded in the Incarnation, you realize you’re getting grounded in all of Christianity. Like, this is the foundation. This is the foundational stuff on which the whole faith is based. And so I would talk to pastors all the time who are like, I’m running out of Christmas material. I don’t know what to preach on, I do this every year and it’s hard to come up with another series. I’m, like, go back to the basics of the faith, man.

This is an opportunity to reset those foundations for people. And so that’s kind of what I look at as somebody who is sort of an outsider to Advent, but appreciates what it brings. Helping us just get our minds and hearts in the right place, to gather people for the right reasons, and to reflect on the foundations of the faith.

[05:21] Stephanie: And it’s also a tradition that is easy to make multigenerational and to do as a family. Yeah, it’s very robust and wonderful. I’m glad that you brought it in. And for the next couple of episodes we will explore some Advent themes. We’re going to look at Incarnation and preparation, but we’re not necessarily going to walk you through, okay,  here’s how you’re going to light tonight’s candle. But there is as he mentioned, The Deeper Walk Guide to Advent at the Deeper Walk bookstore. And then you also have done at least one webinar on this topic.

If you just go to deeperwalk.com, then search for Advent, and our Advent things will come up for you. Honestly, here’s kind of how I was thinking about it, and we’ll see how the conversation unfolds. As I was contemplating the topic I was thinking about Incarnation in two ways,the idea of forming and filling. And also this picture of God walking with us. And just that’s pretty key to Deeper Walk. We often talk about how we walk with God, but I also want to look at it from how he walks with us.

And then the idea of preparation. I think we see from the very beginning in Genesis all the way through into the Gospels how God has been preparing us for his coming, and for life. We also see how we can prepare for Him and his coming. And so I want to touch on all of those things as we go. And I guess I’m going to come back and ask you that question. Genesis 1.

[07:11] Marcus: Yeah. Genesis 1. So it’s interesting, as a former Old Testament instructor and adjunct faculty, most of the times that I heard Genesis 1 taught, honestly, it was just an excuse to talk about young Earth versus old Earth. Evolution and stuff like that. And people did what I call, a way where you use the text as a window to the event underneath it, and then you talk about the event. And when I taught people regularly how to study the Bible one of the things I would tell them is, that’s not actually what the Bible is there for. It’s not there to be a window to an event that you go and unpack and exegete that event.

The Bible tells a story for a reason. We’re supposed to exegete the text. Asking ourselves the question more about when it comes to creation in Genesis 1,  not what clues does he give us to the creation story itself? Which is a fine discussion, but the main question we have to ask is, why did he tell us this information and not some other information? Why include this and not include the stuff that we’re so curious about, right?

We all want to know answers to important questions like did Adam have a belly button? The Bible doesn’t tell us these very important things. But we all want to know all kinds of questions about the beginning of the world that are left out. So you ask, why are these in here? And then the second is, why are they put in this order? Why are they arranged this way? So it has to do with selection and arrangement.

So why is this selected and why is something else omitted? Why are these things arranged the way that they are? And now what that does is it leads us to the author’s intended message. So if you hear that closely, author, A, intended I, message M, you get the word AIM. And it just is sitting there waiting for us to claim this acrostic saying, let’s take AIM at the text, by analyzing selection and arrangement to get at the author’s intended message.

[09:25] Stephanie: I just need to pause right here, because it’s a perfect opportunity. If you are excited about this Bible study method there is also a booklet at the Deeper Walk bookstore. The 3-2-1 Bible Study Method, that explains it. And also you have an e-course, Dad did an e-course that you can find. We love talking about the Bible. So if you want more Bible study tools, there’s a quick pitch.

[09:49] Marcus: All right, so Genesis 3, Genesis 2, Genesis 1. This is Genesis 1 that we’re on. Okay, so Genesis 1 doesn’t read the way you would expect for a creation story. So one of the things you notice right away is that there is an unformed planet that is dark, it is covered with water, and it is specifically said in Hebrew to be tohu va-vohu, formless and empty. And the only other time that phrase tohu va-vohu is used in the Old Testament is in Jeremiah.

When he’s talking about the devastation wreaked on the land by the invading Babylonian army and how the whole place was left formless and empty. It was just tohu va-vohu. And so what we get at the creation account is that on day one is kind of this picture of God or Jesus, if you will, standing on the planet Earth in a formless empty state. Dark, covered with water, and beginning the process of redemption. And not just creation, because there’s a planet there. So he’s redeeming this planet.

So again, in just a text standpoint and a literary standpoint of what the author is doing, his emphasis isn’t on the origin of the universe and things like this. It is specifically the creation of this garden planet. As you walk from dark, underwater, formless, and empty, it doesn’t take much imagination to realize that a lot of people would describe their lives that way. A lot of people feel like my life is dark, my life is empty. I feel like it’s lacking shape and direction. I even feel like I’m drowning underwater. But it says the Spirit of God is hovering there. He’s close to the broken-hearted. In this case, he’s close to the broken planet and he’s hovering there. And God is going to take the whole planet on this six day transformational journey and then he rests. If you go to the Bible Project, the kind of cartoon little videos on the Internet, theirs on Genesis 1 is actually quite good. It walks through some of the same things I’m going to walk through today.

And one of the points they emphasize is that there’s a concluding statement, and it was good, and it was good with each thing. Then you get to the last day, the 7th day, and it’s a place of rest. And it’s as if God is now inviting anybody who wants to to enter into that rest with Him. It’s sort of like the 7th day stands as an invitation.

So what happens in Genesis 1 is this redemption story in which a broken, dark planet is transformed into a place that is good. It is blessed and it is a place at rest. A place specifically where we can enter into God’s rest with Him. And so there’s a quick overview of where Genesis 1 goes and why it’s so significant for the whole idea of emotional healing. And it also is going to lay a good foundation for the rest of where we want to go.

[13:05] Stephanie: Yeah, so let’s go there. Can you start connecting some of those Genesis 1 principles to the Christmas story?

[13:13] Marcus: Yes. So when you get to forming and filling, let me first just walk through that. The first three days of creation have to do with forming what was formless. And the next three days have to do with filling what was empty. And so with forming you get light. You get sea and sky, and you get land. And those have to do with separating the light from the darkness. Separating sky from sea and separating land from water. And then separation creates categories and it creates forms.

Even the plants reproduce after their kinds and God is giving order to things. He’s giving shape to things. He says there’s a purpose for this. And then he starts filling it. Different lights that are parallel. There are fish and there are birds parallel to the sea in the sky. There are animals and humans to fill the land. And with all of this what we see is God’s ultimate purpose for the world, that he is creating this beautiful home where he can live with his people.

He wants us to live with Him in this place of rest, in this place of beauty. And the Christmas story wouldn’t be needed if it wasn’t for what happens after this. And that is the fall of man and the exile from the garden and the fact that we’ve lost all of this. And so the connection to the Christmas story on the front side is simply Genesis 1, helps us to understand why there is this deep longing inside all of us for something more. For something eternal, for something good, for something at rest, for peace, and for blessing.

There’s a deep longing that every human being has regardless of whether they are a Christian or not. And it hearkens back to our origin. And then now the incarnation in Christmas has to do with the lengths God was willing to go, to to make sure that his original purpose for creation was fulfilled. And that people had this opportunity to enter into a walk with him in which they could experience what was good, what was blessed, and what was at rest.

[15:21] Stephanie: Amen. How hopeful.

[15:23] Marcus: How hopeful. Yes.

[15:27] Stephanie: As I was processing through this I just kept thinking, yes, this is a story of hope. This is a redemption story. And can you speak a little bit more to the Incarnation itself? The Incarnation, I see it through the Old Testament all the way into the New Testament. Can you substantiate that?

[15:46] Marcus: Well, yeah. So the word Incarnation means to embody something, to put it in a body. And so what we have in Genesis 2 the very next thing, is the description of how God kind of gets down on his hands and knees and forms stuff out of the dirt. He creates a body and breathes his life into it. And from the very beginning God is associating Himself with humanity. He says, it’s going to be my life that is living in these people. And the very idea of breath we even talk about from your first breath to your last breath.

And there is this idea of ashes to ashes and we’re going to go back to dust. And so everything about the creation account itself lends to the idea that God made us unique. We’re not like the angels who have some other kind of body that we can’t quite describe. He made us out of the earth and he made us to be connected to the earth. And in our redemption, to redeem his purpose for creation. To redeem his purpose and desire to wanting to be with us. What Incarnation shows is the lengths that he was willing to go to. He said, I’m going to take on a dirt suit, if you will. I’m going to let myself be encased and embodied in this human body I made out of dirt.

And it’s just the most humbling thing that you can imagine. It’s also mind boggling. It’s really almost impossible to wrap your head around the idea of an infinite God being wrapped in the limitations of a human body. But it shows us the extent that he was not just willing to go to, but that he did go to. And he not only did that, he didn’t just show up and say, well, here I am now, worship me, he came as a servant. He came among those who were poor. He made himself a servant to all. He modeled what the Father is like so nobody has to wonder about it anymore.

Like, I wonder what God’s really like. Well, look at Jesus and you’ll get a pretty good idea. Then to humble himself to death and even death on a cross, and you realize it is impossible to miss how trustworthy and how loving he is. And as Paul says, how can somebody who gave us all of this not with Him freely give us all things? It’s pretty remarkable. Now you’ve been thinking about this a bit as you’re getting ready. So I’m curious too, how do you connect creation and incarnation? Where are some places you see the connection?

[18:24] Stephanie: I see so much of how God is with us. From Jesus being born into a human body is the ultimate example of incarnation. But all the way through the Old Testament, he is with us. Build me a tent. I’m walking with you, I’m guiding you. You  literally have people walking with Him in Genesis. Then just also his care for the real world issues. The Bible is not just like some metaphysical. Like, oh, sync with this understanding that you’re going to have to meditate on really hard to understand, because there’s nothing connected to the real world in it.

[19:16] Marcus: It’s not platonic. It’s like, hey, you’re in a cave and these are all shadows, so don’t worry about it.

[19:22] Stephanie: Yeah. And I mean, there are mysteries. There are things that we can’t understand, and they are addressed in the Bible. But there is so much incarnational wisdom, I guess I would say, throughout the Scriptures. You see Him caring about the physical needs of people. Working through the physical hands and feet of people, and sometimes even Himself.

[19:45] Marcus: You could sort of put it this way. You can summarize the entire theology of the Bible with one preposition, and that is the word “with”. All of Christian theology, all of Biblical theology comes down to the word “with.” That God wanted to be with us,and he created a world where he could be with us. He created us with bodies and in his image in a way where we could be with Him.

And then we see that theme continue on. Even in his pain of having to exile the people that he wanted to be with. He’s like, well, I’m going to launch this whole strategy through the promise, through the covenants, and through the election of the people of Israel. Through all that we’re doing here to bring the intended blessing that I’ve always wanted so that we can be with each other. And you think about what salvation is all about in the New Testament, salvation is about restoring our ability to be with God. And so the tabernacle especially embodies this.

And so in John, chapter one, verse 14, it says, the word became flesh and lived with us In a sense, lived among us. And the purpose of the tabernacle was that God wanted to be with his people. He wanted to be at the center of his people. And so the tabernacle was right at the center of the whole camp. And John doesn’t use just any Greek word in 1:14, as you well know. He uses the Greek word skēnoō. The idea is to tent with somebody.

But it’s not just any tent. He’s not like, let’s go camping together. It’s a direct reference back to the tabernacle tent and saying that Jesus came to be with us so that we could be with Him. And so you can just unpack this and unpack this, and unpack this. But what it really comes down to is that the incarnation is about God wanting to be with us, and the lengths he would go to so that we could be with Him. And creation itself is about God’s whole preparation for this one overarching desire that he wanted to be with us, and us with Him.

[21:54] Stephanie: Huzzah! All right, more next week. I’m just going to take a moment to thank the listener who submitted a book recommendation to me via the On the Trail mailbox form. Listen to this. The Meaning and Translation of ἰδού and ἴδε ‘behold’: A Construction Grammar Analysis by Nicholas A. Bailey. Just saying that title brings a smile to my face. I have not read it yet, but I love that you caught my mention of the grammar of behold and sent that my way. It delights me and I hope I can get to it. It sounds awesome. And so, yeah, while we’re talking Greek, if there are any other technical nerds…..

[22:36] Marcus: I want to buy an  ἰδού and ἴδε 

[22:43] Stephanie: Any closing thoughts for this episode?

[22:46] Marcus: As we wrap up this time and we enter into the Advent season it’s a four week journey, where we have the opportunity to set aside time specifically to reflect on the Incarnation. On the idea that the Word became flesh and lived among us. And that usually in many traditions the first concept here has to do with repentance. Now, they might call it hope or they might call it something else. But what they’re really talking about is let’s start preparing our hearts.

Let’s start asking God to show us, is there something in my life that is keeping me from being with you and the way that you want to be with me? And let’s ask, God is there something of which I need to repent? Because that thing is getting in the way of us being together in a way that would be good for both of us. And so as we’re wrapping this up, I would just encourage people that Advent almost universally starts with this idea of repent because there’s hope, and because God wants to be with us.

[23:52] Stephanie: Thank you for that word. And thank you, everyone, for joining us on the trail. Today Deeper Walk exists to make heart focused discipleship the norm for Christians everywhere. If you’d like to support this cause, you can become a Deeper Walk Trailblazer with your monthly donation of $25 or more. And if you want to keep going deeper with us on your walk with God, please subscribe to the On The Trail podcast, leave a review, and share with your friends.

Thanks again. We’ll see you back next week.